After the passage of a sufficient interval of time, I have taken it upon myself to address some issues that brought unwanted attention to this blog. Specifically, it involves the unexamined assumption that there is a sort of natural affinity between the tenets of Tradition and various identitarian movements, which go under the label of “New Right”. Although there are some points in common, there are nevertheless significant differences in the understanding of the world and the task at hand. First of all, taking a cue from Rene Guenon, let us be clear about the basics of Tradition.
The first tenet is that a mutual understanding between the world’s religious traditions is possible because in their depth they are expressions of certain metaphysical principles. This is not at all the same as syncretism or indifferentism, since each religious tradition has its place and it, rather than any corporeal or bio-physical considerations, is the source of the identity of a people. Nor is it a call to replace an exoteric tradition with something more abstract, higher, or “sophisticated”; faith is virtual gnosis, or else it is mere opinion, so it cannot be casually discarded.
The second tenet is that there is a cyclic process of decadence and that the West is, unfortunately, at the vanguard of that decadence. The immediate cause is the rejection or forgetting of its spiritual Tradition. The consequences of this forgetfulness are legion and have been recounted ad nauseum by this point. However, the cure proposed by Tradition is quite different from that of the new right. According to the former, the West requires a healing through spiritual regeneration. This will begin with an awakening of a few to the full scope of the problem; they will inaugurate the recovery of tradition which will eventually gather influence.
The new right, on the other hand, is either irreligious or, at best, rejects outright its most recent Tradition. For them, the problem is “bio-cultural”, that is, limited to the race of the body and the race of the soul. That is an impossible gulf to cross, since it leaves transcendence out of consideration. It sees the threat on the horizontal plane, particularly the alleged population replacement by alien peoples, among other grievances; it can only see symptoms and misses the true cause. To the extent it claims to be “metapolitical”, it can only hope to persuade through “infinite discussion”, first, the current culture makers and then, by extension, the larger public. Thus it relies materially on the democratic methods it opposes formally.
Hence, Gornahoor, with a worldwide audience, cannot be limited to Euro-centrism. Of course, our primary aim is the healing of the West so we investigate other traditions in order to revive our own. The end result, whenever it may occur, is not at all Euro-centric, since it affects the entire world. From the perspective of Tradition, the fundamental problem is not the encroachment of aliens into the West, whatever inconveniences that may bring, but rather the deformation of non-European cultures through the deviance and decadence of contemporary Western forms of life.
Natural Nationalism
We recently pointed out what Metternich called the natural feeling of nationalism. Every society has the natural right to preserve its bio-cultural integrity. Yet, culture is the outer expression of the spirit of a people; if that spirit is deformed, it will show up as cultural distortions. It is not enough to save the body if the soul is lost. As a fish rots from the head, the challenge of bio-cultural integrity will come from the top. Since we dealt with these phenomena in the discussion about Vilfredo Pareto, there is no point to do it again here.
There is another factor in play, however. The nobility did not fully share that sentiment, at least not in the same way. Julius Evola makes this clear when he rejects Hitler’s claim that “Being a street sweeper in the Reich should be considered a greater honour than being the king of a foreign country.” Specifically, the nobility led their lives apart from the commoners. They would choose a spouse from the nobility of other nations rather than a commoner of their own ethnicity. In effect, they became a race apart, even to the extent that the people had rulers who were not even of the same ethnicity. This led to the idea of “high culture” as opposed to the folk cultures of the people.
Unfortunately, the cosmopolitanism of the nobility often led to the contempt of the masses they were supposed to be ruling. This feeling persists today in the ruling elite, even though no longer noble; they often have more in common with their peers of other nations than in their own citizens. Even on the right, there is too much contempt expressed about the “mass man”.
Here is where the spiritual elite are supposed to mediate things, as Vladimir Solovyov pointed out. The spiritual leaders give a voice and a consciousness to the folk, which lifts them out of the mass.
I can bring up a point here about some objections to the Venner post that I did not understand, since many saw it as a personal attack. I was told it was the use of the word “vulgar”. Now its primary meaning is “of or relating to the common people”. Because of the faux contempt of the common people, this word has picked up unsavory connotations, particularly in English (in French, “vulgarisation” simply means “popularization”).
Facts and Opinions
This brings me to the point, and it involves something distasteful. However, I have become persuaded that it is necessary, since, once comments have been archived, they become authoritative unless refuted. The opposite of a fact is not a mistake, which we are always happy to correct, but rather an unsupported personal opinion that pretends to be a fact. Hence we are compelled to address some of those pseudo-facts. For my source, I am relying on New Culture, New Right by Michael O’Meara. Unless and until the publisher or distributor sends out an errata sheet with the book, we shall consider it the authority on all things “new right”.
Assertion: “Venner was not, strictly speaking, a New Right author.”
O’Meara writes (p 17):
After an adolescent stint in the Action Francaise, the precocious Alain de Benoist participated in Venner’s and Mabire’s Euope-Action, the first right-wing group to embrace issues anticipating the cultural and identitarian concerns that would hereafter define the European New Right.
Fact: Venner was “strictly speaking” one of the ideological founders of the European New Right.
There was an objection to our characterization of fundamental views of the new right. O’Meara mentions five currents that form the new right (p 29):
- The anti-modern traditionalism of Rene Guenon and Julius Evola
- Communitarian or volkisch currents and “European nationalism”
- Neo-paganism
- Postmodernism
- Science
Someone objected to our characterization of the new right as neo-pagan; you can believe the comment writer, or you can believe O’Meara and Gornahoor. Your call.
There was also an objection to our characterization of the new right as rooted in biological elements. It is difficult to interpret point (2) in any other way. Also, point (5) is specifically oriented, according to O’Meara, “to the life sciences and their genetic, eugenic, and ideological implications.”
There was an objection to the alleged influence of tradition on the new right, again in direct contradiction to O’Meara. But here is where the confusion comes in. The new right has absorbed Guenon’s anti-modern critique, but not his “traditionalism” as such. This explains the one-dimensional understanding of those whose understanding of Tradition is limited to new right authors.
Although there are some points of contact between the two worldviews, there is also a gap. Tradition is looking for a spiritual as opposed to a bio-cultural renewal. Since most of our new right readers have abandoned us, this will probably be our last post on this topic for a while. There is too much misunderstanding, but as we have shown, it is not on our part.
Just to be clear, Michel, I am in agreement with your concerns on the counter initiates and the bizarre anomalies they have been a cause of. I’ve been aware (of points listed 1-5) as others have of these fissures in the great wall. It would be well that these are named and recognized by people who are willing to call them out – although this forum finds it uncomfortable delving into such politically charged matters. These are but a fraction of the other strange happenings too, of the “conspiratory” or occult war variety; fluoridation, chem-trails, the Ozarks, “Golem group” A.I, Georgia guide stones, false flags, Obama’s brain+ear surgeries/birth-cert etc. The list goes on and is no laughing matter. If things are rotten on the spiritual plane, they’re seriously malformed on the multiplicity of the manifested one, if anyone cares to analyze the dirty logistics in the observable modern existence. “Normalcy” is just another sign of the times.
I interpret fighting for lost positions as say, advocating the return of the Hapsburg monarchy in Austria, the Bourbon house of France, true monarchism in general and political Catholicism of the Tradition, Family, Property type – we know no one is listening but we spoke not for them but for ourselves to show the light in a dark world.
The new right is not even right wing at all when you have an Alexander Dugin praising Marx, Lenin and Stalin. Communism is pure satanism.
Mr Morgan,
This comments shows that you have not broken all ties with this world, so you will not become enlightened until you change your attitude. Perhaps in time you will see the truth that this world is suffering and only by escaping it can one find liberation. All cares are illusion.
The problem with the Nouvelle Droite as I see it is that it gives false hopes to good minds, rather than helping the differentiated man overcome the world it immerses him in modernity of a different kind. Or perhaps not as any man attracted to the NR might already be of a modern mind to begin with.
When was Evola ever a supporter of GRECE?
I apologize for posting two very similar messages, but I’ve always found the comment threads on this board a bit confusing and I hadn’t thought that my first message went through.
For someone who wants to be a pure traditionalist along the lines of Evola and Guenon, clearly apoliteia is the only course that makes sense today. This is why I decided that I am not a doctrinaire traditionalist. To someone who notes the degeneration of the modern world, there are only two options: turn one’s back on it, or try to make the best of the situation. The New Right, while in no sense a traditionalist movement (and, as I have constantly reiterated, has never claimed to be), is such an attempt. One can take it or leave it. Until the appearance of something superior, this is the path I have adopted. Just personal spiritual enlightenment is insufficient for me. This may be a result of my own misunderstandings or errors, but it is the course I have taken at this point in my life. Although I agree it is not really a valid choice from a traditional perspective (even though Evola did speak with admiration of “those who fight on in lost positions”). Ultimately, traditionalism cannot be political and modern politics cannot be traditionalist.
I’d say that this holds true for the Brahmin caste, for a lack of better words, although even this seems to be a bit flexible. The temporal power of the Pope, championed by de Maistre, one of the principle influences for Gornahoor, is most certainly not a good example of apoliteia. For the other castes, however, this seems to be false. Is the kshatriya not the ruler and warrior? Even the merchant and worker castes were active in the life of the village and township, if at guild and parish level rather than throne and altar, during the medieval period which Gornahoor does hold as an example of a traditional age. Even if the age of kali yuga demands different practices, it seems that this means simply that the work that the “politically active” man does would take a different form. That doesn’t necessitate joining some group; banding your neighbours together to stop Monsanto from taking over traditional community structures and seeds would be a fine example and in line with the principles espoused here.
For someone who wants to be a pure and true traditionalist, it seems to me that apoliteia is the only road to take. Which is why I decided that I am not a doctrinaire traditionalist. It may end up being futile, or not, and it may just be my own weakness, or not, but I cannot simply content myself with watching the world decay around me and not attempt to do something about it. As I have said all along, the New Right is not a traditionalist movement in the strict sense of Guenon and Evola, nor has it ever claimed to be such. However, the points of overlap are clear. One may not think that this is sufficient, or one may disagree with their approach or methods, but in the absence of any other movement that is attempting to address these problems, it remains the only endeavor in this direction. For those for whom all political thought and action at the present time is a useless gesture, I don’t see why it’s necessary to engage with political issues at all.
Ash, I think you have written the most balanced, measured and intelligent contribution to this debate thus far.
That’s our point, Mr. Lutz: why Evola and why not Mary Poppins, if the interlocutor had to pick an influence at random. Perhaps because Evola himself was a supporter of GRECE in its nascent stage? But that is precisely the point we made: the new right took some interesting things from Evola, but rejected the elements that were specific to Tradition.
Perhaps you could post that on a web site that presumes a close connection between the two and report back with the results.
Thank you for the compliment, it’s still developing but I’m hoping the content proves useful.
In terms of how Vaisyas can pursue esoteric paths, what about societies like the Freemasons (in their original form) or Sufi societies in countries like Turkey? Many of these are examples of people who can be characterized as Vaisya pursuing the esoteric cores of their faiths with greater zeal. There certainly is a precedent for it, in my view. Again, Danielou’s book is a fantastic source for the “householder” tradition.
According to Alain de Benoist, Evola and ‘Traditionalism’ have had only minor influences on the New Right:
______________________________________________________________
TELOS: [. . .] what is the significance of Julius Evola for the European New Right in general and you in particular? [. . .]
BENOIST: Why Evola? Among all the authors who have been used or cited by the New Right he is certainly not the most important. Evola belongs to the school of integral traditionalism, along with people such as Rene Guenon, Guido De Giorgio or Frithjof Schuon. The New Right does not belong to that school. As for myself, I have never been under his “influence.” The authors who have had the greatest influence on me are Louis Dumont and/or Arthur Koestler. I have also criticized the belief in an original Tradition (in the singular and with a big T), which is dearly a myth. But it is also true that Evola published interesting and valuable works about ethics, spirituality and philosophy of religions. His work is vast and one does not have to accept all of it. [. . .]
_______________________________________________________________
http://home.alphalink.com.au/~radnat/debenoist/alain15.html
Michel, I hope I do not speak only for myself when I say that you are not only welcome, but encouraged to stay here and share your insights for as long as you please.
Before I go further, I must state that since I read your first comment, a persistent association has emerged in my mind; you remind me of a certain writer from the USA, connected to a tariqah, who has written a number of books exploring counter-initiatic developments in our times, most of which I have not yet had a chance to read. You needn’t comment on this observation, but just in case anyone else had the same inkling, I thought I’d mention it.
As for your notes on Guenon and Evola, I agree almost entirely. If the past few days of reading internet articles constitute the entirety of your exposure to Evola, your inferences are remarkably precise. Evola’s views on taking radical action to free oneself from modern influences do coincide with yours; he wrote ‘Ride the Tiger’ specifically for those ‘differentiated men’ who did not have the means or inclination to effect a beneficial physical separation from the modern world, and never undermined the value of total sequestration for those who could attain it.
Your development of the question on the reaction of the Tibetan spiritual authority is comprehensive. Indeed, in a traditionally ordered society, it is the temporal power that must respond to terrestrial offensives, whatever their nature, and try to restrain them without violating the boundaries of action dictated by the spiritual authority. Should such a response fail, does the spiritual authority have any recourse other than to recognise the outcome as the Will of God and submit to the repercussions, at least corporeally and for the time being? Perhaps not.
On the question of counter-initiatic use of symbols, I am familiar with the interesting Vigilant Citizen website, and one of your earlier posts mentioning media penetration reminded me of it, though I was entirely ignorant of the Airport. I am once again in agreement with you, this time in your assessment of his work.
Returning to the main theme, the radical establishment of an Order, formed by association of men and women around an Adept (living and present). Though such an Adept would be qualified to institute his own law of organisation, I doubt anyone here would claim this station. Associating with or forming any apparent Order could be futile, or worse, unless it observed the boundaries of the exoteric law of a known tradition, the most favourable perhaps being the Islamic Sharia, within which an associated esoterism could be developed without recourse to elements from other traditional forms. The potential for such esoterism within Christianity today is an ongoing topic of discussion here. If memory serves, I also recall an endorsement of a certain Vaishnavite organisation written by an associate of Arktos Media in one of their publications, where he described it as a regular initiatic order, open to all. I do not know enough to comment on that organisation.
In any case, a few commenters here have recently expressed the desire to hold an in-person ‘conference’ (some participants have probably already met each other and Cologero, though I have not), and some of these would perhaps be both ready and willing to participate in an Order, were the opportunity real. It remains to be seen what will become of the initial contact this website has allowed all of us, or at least those who have not settled on a ‘home’ in real life already. But the anger that inspired Michel’s first post here is not misplaced – if some of us want to respond to the modern world actively from within the West (and not just uphold customs/residues), and pursue our personal esoteric development, where is the push to find and foster the best opportunity?
One could hardly properly say you are always laconic, Michael.
But perhaps catholic (from Church Latin catholicus “universal, general,” from Greek katholikos, from phrase kath’ holou “on the whole, in general,” from kata “about” + genitive of holos “whole”).
Would you scroll upp, you would see a message from me dated 2013-06-12, explaining bit further.
In any case, we are of a mutual Understanding to a far greater degree than the outer aspects of my being would suppose about the outer aspects of your being supposing.
Tradition creeps. Creeps into everything.* Like fire it burns everywhere it can burn, and like water it flows everywhere it can flow. Everything derives from it, and errors or illusions are but de-generations or privations. It seems wise men through the ages have utilized aspects of almost anything, being enlightened by, and being able to enlighten it with Tradition. Be it, for example, non-aryan traditions of chthonic sorcery or Levantine traditions of morality.** It “cannot be opposed, for the very plane that houses the will to oppose it is situated below the horizon of efficacy.” Indeed, even the lowest cults, and most inferior workable techniques and doctrines embody it (up to the level that they are able!) for otherwise they would not work at all.*** As shall the doctrines of this postmodern age be consumed, as were the uncountable tribes, civilizations and their traditions lost to history, high or low, consumed before it.
* ´The world of being and the world of becoming affect things, demons and men.´ [“Revolt Against the Modern World” 1934 – by Evola, Julius (ITI 1995)]
** ´According to some (Piganiol, Les Origines de Rome [Paris, 1899]) the appearence of the Olympian gods next to the feminine deities of the earth was the result of the mixture of the cults of northern origin with the cults of southern origin.´**** [“Revolt Against the Modern World” by Evola, Julius 1934 (ITI 1995, p. 199)] : Now this seems global, as for example the Aryans adapted Tantrism to the needs of the times, and Germanics adapted non-Aryan shamanistic practices. (´[…] even ancient practices of the dark pre-Aryan substratum were borrowed, transformed, integrated, and elevated to an initiatory plane.´ [“The Yoga of Power” 1949 – by Evola, Julius (ITI, 1992 p. 8)])
*** ´The dimension of that which is universal may appear in different aspects and different degrees in various civilizations and traditional organizations. The „formative process“ always encounters resistance from matter, which in its determinations caused by time and space acts in a differentiating and particularistic sense in relation to the effective historical application of the one principle that in itself is superior and antecedent to these manifestations.´ [“Revolt Against the Modern World” 1934 – by Evola, Julius (ITI 1995, p. 25)]
RIDE THE DRAGON
Greetings August and everyone who is reading this. This afternoon, I visited a website that provided various books and articles pertaining to Evola’s works. Before I continue I’d like to say two things: one, my very first comment was written out of, I must admit, anger at what to me is extreme complacency, even if change is to be effected on an individual level, and here, as I hope to elucidate, it seems Evola agrees with me. Second, I therefore never really thought I’d spend that much time here, I just wanted to see what reaction would present itself.
Initially (I mean a long time ago, not in relation to this website or the above paragraph), I was searching for the truth due in part, to certain ‘strange’ occurrences in my individual life and also due to what I can describe as an other-worldly intense search and hunger for the Truth/God, which was not satisfied by the nature of the world around me. At that point, I did not know of the ‘Traditionalist School’; there was no Guenon, no Evola, none of these. There was just an intense desire for the Truth that at times would result in even physical contortions. I’m sure everyone here has had more or less the same inclinations and experiences. What I’m trying to say is that, to me, it still doesn’t matter whether one person, be it Guenon, Evola, someone who ‘blindly follows them’ or even a genuine God-man is ‘right’, what matters is what makes them ‘right’. What is it that they are in possession of that makes them infallible, but the same thing that is drawing me unto itself with virility? What is it but the Self deep within me, the ‘unmoved mover’, the Supreme Identity that I Am? If I have not realized this for myself and undergone yoga-‘union’- if I have not, like the Buddha extinguished the flame of the candle and at that timeless instant experienced-experience- Paranirvana, does it really matter to me what any of these men said? They were as I said in my first comment, simply men who give the proper ‘orientation’ so that, having let this ‘orientation’ penetrate into deeper fabrics of my being (that is, in so far as this orientation aids me in preparatory steps preceding initiation), I can ‘guard’ myself against any fallacy that may come my way during my journey and also, since they have used a language I can understand, as the Rosicrucians used to say, realize deeply the depths of certain things that I would have otherwise taken for granted. On the various disagreements relating to the two, I can say that each of them congenially realized certain Truths; these Truths synthesize the indefinite points of view (the ‘darshans’) that are existent among the indefinite beings; in Islam, it is like part of the symbolism of the Kaaba, qibla, salat, sharia, tariqa, hajj and haqq. It is like Kaaba, because the Truth is ‘central’ and consists of indefinite manifestations, which are all but ‘modes’ of it and without it are rendered non-existent. It is like qibla because all these ‘modes’ are ‘oriented’ towards it, whether they are conscious of it or not, it is like salat, because those who are conscious of this even from an ‘exoteric’ point of view, ‘mimic’ the process through which this Truth has produced them (which shows that they realize it congenially due to its presence in them, without which there would be no individual ‘starting and progressing’ points)- from an upright position, one begins to prostrate himself until he has touched the ground, i.e. from Unity and an ‘untainted’, ‘undifferentiated’ and ‘upright’ ‘nature’, Principle has ‘multiplied’ itself and ‘lowered’ itself to produce all things in an ‘actionless fashion’ that is still oriented towards its own centrality. It is like sharia because the beings in motion are still ‘held’ onto the Truth despite their movement which engenders their predestination as well as, from another point of view, that which mitigates their ‘karmic debt’ (Law). It is like tariqa because from these indefinite positions that these beings occupy around the ‘un-closed circumference’ are indefinite radii that represent congenial realization of the Truth, the path that each must walk as they return to the place they have never left. It is like hajj, because hajj is symbolic of the motion directed towards this very return and finally, it is like al-haqq because the end of the manifested world-of which these beings are part- is Itself, the Truth. And so, I quite frankly, really don’t care about ‘traditionalism’ or apparent differences between anyone or anything, in so far as I have received a Barakah because the Source of this is beyond all identification- when i said that i was ‘neutral’ with regards to Evola, I meant that, having already found a proper orientation, ultimately, whatever he says, ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ will not affect this ‘neutrality’ effectuated by a sound ‘orientation’, nothing will or can. The fact that these men approached these matters from different ‘view-points’ is only important if it is directed to men who being ‘differentiated’ nevertheless are still of varying ‘strains’ and dispositions; no doubt Guenon was more sacerdotal and Evola more Royal, but all this only exists by virtue of the ‘non-caste’ ‘nature’ of the Truth, so that it can be accessed from either path, it is their end and they are not ends unto themselves.
Regardless, in relation to this very contingent discussion, I have read a few articles from the website [http://www.juliusevola.net] that were excerpts from certain books of his. From them, I think that they address certain practical ways of living in the modern world and are therefore poised towards ‘realistically’ offering remedies to the ‘differentiated’ men of today, whereas, for example, Guenon was ‘impractical’ and focusing solely on Doctrinal Issues in a very detached way didn’t/doesn’t really offer much ‘practical’ help to the men and women he was/is addressing. I agree with the notion that living Traditionally ‘exoterically’ under, for example, mere religious observations is impossible today within any modern society, if this ‘exoteric’ aspect is to be fully restored and given what belongs to it and to fully act as a ‘support’ for realization of higher realities. (Even before reading the excerpt that dealt with this, by my prior posts, you can see that the complacency and even delusion of ‘traditionalists’ in terms of actually doing anything significant that externally fosters tangible change angers me and strikes me as strange, and so, this idea I already had and it really is true even from a logical standpoint). I also agree with the notion of taking ‘radical’ actions (the whole point of my posts) to render oneself free from the modern world in an external sense; now I do not yet know if Evola spoke of this directly, but from his ‘style’ and ‘tone’ I think he would have agreed with this aspect, that of ‘radicality’ in any form that is worthy of the name.
To finish on my views on Evola, in a sense, he ‘filled in portholes’ and built upon some foundations laid by Guenon, who dealt with fundamental aspects. Evola seems to speak of ‘practicality’ and offers some relatively direct advice to the ‘differentiated’ men, Guenon is very austere and only directly speaks of such men, the ‘potential elite’ in a general non-interested tone, saying things like ‘if he [potential elite] is not able to overcome it [the modern world] then it shows he does not have enough power to raise himself above it’ (a paraphrase from The Crisis of the Modern World). Again, congenially, Guenon was sacerdotal, a pneumatic who being naturally posited at the ‘pole’ only needed to realize it, he is like the first type of men who Evola speaks of here: [http://www.juliusevola.net/excerpts/Initiation_-_Only_Three_Possible_Cases_Beyond_Realm_of_Phenomena_%26_Rene_Guenons_Two_Misunderstandings.html] and recognizes as a Master. The other thing with Guenon is that he seemed to have a high amount of faith in the East, whereas Evola was not too optimistic about it (hence his differentiation of Initiation, though Guenon does speak of an ‘upaguru’ that can take the form of objects vested with Spiritual Power, or of Spiritual Influences that can offer an initiation to the qualified etc in his book Perspectives on Initiation and this agrees with Evola’s ideas, or rather, this is the truth). Evola developed ideas on practical attitudes, and in my eyes was too pessimistic and even ill-informed on the present state of Spiritual centers in the world. The East, some parts of Central America and Africa still have Centers, sacred sites and worthy ‘officials’ who constitute a ‘tangible’ Spiritual Order. Otherwise, Evola really is not that different from Guenon (at least based on the little I’ve read). If his books and ideas help someone then, that is good for them, if Guenon’s books and ideas help others, then that is good for them; these are not even preliminary readings with regard to any Spiritual Order, whether this Order is still corporeal in terms of representation by human beings or manifests itself as ‘influences’ or ‘objects’ and the like. At any rate, regarding the Orders themselves as well as these authors, the whole goal is to go beyond form, beyond distinction, of which these Orders in manifested mode and these men are, not to stay and ‘prove’ and ‘support’ these forms. Initiation takes the being ‘out’ of the ‘world of form and becoming’ it doesn’t ‘keep’ it there. Which is why any ‘fanatic’ ‘traditionalist’ ‘guenonian’ ‘evloian’ is really not even an inch closer to anything substantial and truly sacred or supreme to the profane tendency to systemize, ‘label’ and reduce all things to ‘individualism’. You can say I only listened to the men of a high Spiritual State due to obedience, I also never knew Evola as such and erroneously discounted him as another ‘spiritist’.
Your question dear August seems to have a rather obvious answer in multiple facets. First, I intently stated that ‘should it be the Will of God’, true change is effectuated from a Spiritual ‘dimension’ and it is true that the Tibetan Lamas were of a High and even Supreme State of Being, or were of the Supreme Identity, ‘inclusive of’ Being. The direct answer from this would be that, it was not God’s Will-but this I know is too ‘general’ an answer. The Chinese were already ‘degenerate’, having been exposed to Western influences, they were therefore an ‘appendage’ on the large ‘demonic body’ of the West-mostly Anglo-Saxons at that. Thus they themselves were Western, whereas the Tibetan Lamas were not, and the object of this discussion is that of actions that establish either personally within the lives of the ‘differentiated men’ substantial change, or generally in mankind similar change as well, who is nearer to the ‘source’ of the problem than those of the Eastern elite like the Lamas; in light of this, being as it is a western problem and this discussion having began by taking into account the lack of radical actions on the part of westerners who wish to return to Tradition, then the solution should not be without either direct effort from the westerners or from aid from the easterners, so that either the Westerners solve the problem wholly by themselves (via ‘radical’ action) through the awakening of an elite, or either the Eastern elite ‘collaborate’ with them to restore order. In short, it may have not been the aim of these Lamas, but it seems to be the aim of ‘traditionalists’ and even probably some people who frequent this blog. If the Lamas wanted to take any action, it would have been entirely of a different nature than the one taken by ‘traditionalists’. But why would they to begin with? Action to solve what? They certainly were not ‘potential masters’ they were ‘actual masters’ and they were only able to realize this mastery due to their lack of or insignificant connection to the modern world; the people in question are extremely affected by this modern world and lie to themselves that by reading a few books or blogs without any corresponding action, either personal or collective, they are remedying the problem, which is their own, not the Lamas’ who are what these people aspire to become. (Here I speak of ‘traditionalists’ in general, not of this blog in particular or its adherents and founders/collaborators). We really don’t know if the Lamas never did anything, or if any Spiritual Order didn’t do anything to stop ‘degeneration’-as Pickman says, it is simply part of cyclic laws that govern manifestation- perhaps the effects of their actions will be felt in the future, as Guenon says, action performed on a Spiritual Plane is timeless and can never be done in vain, even if its effects are not directly perceptible. I cannot speak for them, as I am not their equal, I really don’t know to finish, whether they did do anything or were disinterested in the whole event, all I can say is that, their actions transcend modalities of time and space, being supra-temporal and thus here, on this spacio-temporal reality, the effects may ‘suddenly’ show themselves when least expected with a magnitude that is indescribable.
Establishing such a group indeed would be radical, but the important aspect would be the actual existence of the ‘spiritual atmosphere’ therein, where instead of mere descriptions of ‘beings’, ‘life’, ‘Spirituality’, ‘Being’ and instead of the detailed expositions on matters relating to speculation, there would be an effective and direct possession of all those things and more, it would be ‘vivified’ and would be ‘alive’, the ‘flowing’ of ‘Spiritual energy’ through all those Blessed men and women would be the aspect that unifies them with an unbreakable bond due to its source, which knows no division, all things being synthesized in it, it would be a life reflecting the foundation of Elysium, it would be a secondary centre reflecting the Primordial Tradition (i know this is what an initiatic centre is), a safe haven for all the currently scattered ‘differentiated men’. This can only be done currently if you know a God-man (having ‘possessed’ Buddhi), a pneumatic at the pinnacle of Being or even better, and even more unlikely, a Non-being, who is beyond any description or consideration (having ‘possessed’ Atma), who would be willing to do this. You could apply secondary methods of certain principles that make it ‘easy’ to ‘find’ and ‘relocate’ these scattered men and women, and then you could begin truly living afterwards. If this sounds too idiosyncratic, you could at least try and do so from more ‘realistic’ angles.
On your last paragraph, I agree with you completely, a Spiritual Order does not have to be corporeal, it can be Spiritual Influences, or objects etc, as both Evola and Guenon said; I thought you meant psychic ‘battle’ in a ‘rogue’ and unguided manner, realization of psychic states of being and consciousnesses is currently very dangerous without the presence of a Spiritual Influence/Presence.
Lastly, on the aspect of Denver International Airport and other satanic symbols as a whole, serving as signs that show the agenda of the counter-initiation. Obviously, there are many ‘conspiracy theorists’ out there who may provide unreliable information. Although he is not aware of what he is really speaking of, of the Truth in general and of the purpose of the counter-initiation itself, one credible source who is not prone to ‘subjective speculation’ (in the modern sense of the word) and at least follows a more or less ‘objective’ method during his expositions on the counter-initiation is a man who calls himself vigilant citizen. I can humbly advise that when reading him, discount his ignorance relating to ‘traditional aspects’ and the true meaning of ‘symbols’, he may ‘interpret’ them from a ‘malefic’ angle and poorly at that, but at least he tries to do so ‘objectively’ and his information is reliable, he cites sources, provides pictures for you to judge for yourself and most importantly, shows the general agenda of the counter-initiation. The site is full of uninformed babbling comments, so i advise to also ignore them all together, if interested, simply visit it to get a picture of what is really happening around you, if you do get informed, perhaps you will even be better placed to speak of this agenda due to your superior understanding of symbols and their use. See here: [http://vigilantcitizen.com/sinistersites/sinister-sites-the-denver-international-airport/] for an article on the airport.
Surely the above was one of the good h.ontologia’s less cryptic comments, and you should have little trouble in understanding it Michel.
“The best thing is to ignore subversion or, if you have the rare inner character, ride it.”
For those who see no sense in fighting such an entrenched enemy, and who know that nothing essential is at stake, there are these two options. Either ignore subversion and keep yourself from being sullied, or else embrace whatever attractive novel opportunities subversion happens to bring about and live them for their own sake, these two ways not being necessarily mutually exclusive either.
If you do decide to read Evola, I recommend that you start with ‘Ride the Tiger’, which work is referenced in half of h.ontologia’s comment here.
Graham, there are always risks associated with esoteric practice, which are mitigated by the supports offered in traditional societies and organisations. If you have access to the latter, they will be able to answer your questions.
If you are intending to ‘go it alone’, you must understand that both you and your world could be changed by your development, and once you truly begin, you cannot simply stop and go back. If you live in a modern society, this process could have peculiar attendants. So the result could be anything from the interpolation of a needless distraction in your life, to your own alienation from your regular life as your esoteric practice inspires you to withdraw from your previous commitments (probably quite extensive for a man of trade and a householder), or worse imbalances. Then again, there is no ‘law’ that says these things must happen, and you might benefit secretly from esoteric practice without anything untoward happening in your external life.
There are far too many variables to give advice in these situations, so all I can offer is an overview, a general caveat, to consider before you make a decision.
Hi Michel. I was not really trying to nullify your theme, just looking to stimulate an interesting discussion. Only an assertion of pure detachment would render your theme irrelevant, though without nullifying its consistency, for the impassive have no concern for any thing unless they so will it.
“…at any rate, despite their distinction, the two are not separate, the vertical influences have precedence over the horizontal ones.”
Indeed. Setting aside questions of what operations the participants of Gornahoor might be involved in, I note that you didn’t address my question about the East. For example, if the elites of Tibet could do so little to restrain Chinese incursion, and they are the bearers of a pre-eminently initiatic tradition, why should qualified Westerners attempt to change anything, unless and until the Will of God summons them to such a task?
“…discreetly, they have formed a sort of separate society, where they recruit men and women who want to lead a traditional life in a more ‘exterior’ manner, like the times of the Middle Ages, or like an Islamic civilization…”
The proper establishment of a group according to your description would certainly be radical, and quite beneficial for the development of the participants, if nothing else. It is, of course, not a simple thing to establish.
“…i’m not aware of Evola’s works and the people that i respect due to their Spiritual State have told me to disregard them, apparently, Evola become overly interested in magic.”
If you decide to read some of his works, let us know what you think of the ideas.
“At any rate, the modern man is characterized by a modern mindset, and this modern mindset has plagued even these ‘differentiated men’…”
This is true, even if these ‘differentiated men’ happen to successfully decondition themselves internally to greater or lesser extents. But then I would extend the charge of being affected by the modern mindset to virtually everyone born in recent modernity, at least to an extent; even the most pious believers, even initiates, because all of them were raised in the modern milieu, and most of them were educated in the Western style. The only exceptions are perhaps those few raised in unusually isolated lands, and real hermits who were thus from an early age. Everyone who has experienced modernity has experienced the modern mindset, more or less. That said, there are certain features of the modern mindset that, when rectified and reawakened to the true extent of the world, can be beneficial. For example, exacting objectivity.
I was not aware of the strange grotesqueries at Denver Airport until you mentioned them, and would be interested in your comments.
“Lastly, on the aspect of fighting from a psychic vantage point. Well, this is only even possible from within a Spiritual Order, whose ‘Spiritual Presence’ is capable of protecting the ‘warrior’ from satanic attacks.”
How would you object to the assertion that anyone who has apprehended the Spiritual internally is thereby connected with all others (or just the possibilities of the Self) who are at the same (or higher) level, thus forming an invisible Order? Even if he be isolated, he can still fight those influences that attempt to ensnare him. Though he might suffer extreme psychic storms in the early stages, given that he has few external supports to reinforce or shield him, he should always know that his centre cannot be attacked, and watch on in detachment until the waves subside, which they shall, God willing.
Greetings Pickman. I thank you for your comments. Indeed perhaps, being overly ‘rational’ I am not able to understand what h.ontoliga means. Yes I am also foolish as you say, in fact, the greatest of fools, who is very young with a lot to learn.
I was beginning to enjoy your stream of consciousness until this interruption:
“i’m not aware of Evola’s works and the people that i respect due to their Spiritual State have told me to disregard them, apparently.Evola become overly interested in magic…” (sic – I do find it particular when one refuses to capitalize an “I”)
Stop it now, that is enough. Evola warned against the traditionalist “critics” that blindly follow the scene and their previous gurus advice about forming “opinions” about his works, without actually reading any. This was yet another mental-trap formed by Guenonians in the post-war period.
That said, your five points are correct. No joke is it either but there is cause for joy even in the darkest moments. It would be horribly unPC of me to point to a certain Semitic tribe as the main harbingers of the current counter-initiation in all of its forms (as everyone called them out before WW2) but let us leave it as “counter-initiates” or “satanic globalists”- as Mark Dice, Alex Jones and others of the libertarian milieu have called them. Indeed “they live”.
The true warrior faces hell in the face with laughter. He braves all storms confronts all evil, endures pain with joy and delights in fighting the devil himself. There is no worry, no tomorrow, no trivial pursuits. no materialist bindings – by the fact of being present to the state of affairs he is the cliff against the protean sea and will encounter death with happiness.
Let us be prudent in our remarks. Michel, h.ontoliga, happens to a be a special type of person far above rationalization, one not given to any conventional rules of engagement or rigid group-think aversions and perhaps the wisest of us all. Some of us are far too linear in our approach to something that is eventually going to destroy us – “J.E” saw it and we are more the fools to believe we can outlast the Kali-yuga.
Our “times” today are conservative, even dark age medieval compared to the hellish hyper-post-modernity that awaits our future generations. For too long there has been “reactions” (since 1796-98) as if some divine holy order had been pre-ordaned or set in place before it. Humpy-dumpy was broken, the cat out of the bag and Pandora’s box forever open to the four winds. Until the new cycle occurs, of course only after a severe and devastating catastrophe(fall of the current order), that will throw us to the deepest pits of hell in fierce combat with our adversaries before a new round of tradition be established. Why bother be fixed and determined by anything manifest? We cannot fathom a Justice or solution that is beyond the senses of anthropoids. The world will turn (albeit on a warped axis) galaxies will collide and atoms will smash – how much, mild wayfarer, do you or even the collected remoteness of mankind history “know” of your universe?
We are young and there is much to learn.
Greetings h.ontologia, i must ask, are you being ironic or satirical in your response? Could you kindly explain what it is you mean?
Thank you for the reply August. I have considered your thoughts, but they still do not nullify the main theme of my comment, i will directly state what this theme is after a few points. If you were keen on my use of words, you’ll note that i precede certain statements with the word ‘if’. You’ll also note that my tone indicates Spiritual action and not as you say, ‘actions in the corporeal world’; at any rate, despite their distinction, the two are not separate, the vertical influences have precedence over the horizontal ones. To provide slight emphasis on these two aspects; i have distinctively said that, for example …'(perhaps it has ‘secret operations’ of a more ‘radical’ nature, or perhaps the members really are engaged in spiritual activities rooted in pure Unity that would constitute a true suggestive action which would hopefully lead modern men back to a proper Orientation)’. I must ask for forgiveness on my vagueness with regards to the former part of this statement, in detail, i meant that perhaps, discreetly, they have formed a sort of separate society, where they recruit men and women who want to lead a traditional life in a more ‘exterior’ manner, like the times of the Middle Ages, or like an Islamic civilization. Where they would each ‘center’ themselves around a pneumatic (or pneumatics) who, by virtue of his truly central position (i.e. his ‘ego-lessness’ having accomplished the lesser mysteries and commenced the greater mysteries, having risen from the lower waters and entered into the higher waters, having become like Christ who walked on water or who realized his integral makeup as a human being, before ascending into divinity), would be best suited to act as the supreme authority for such a people insofar as they themselves have not realized this centrality. I would say that the effect of this and all it implies in its intrinsic details would be incomparable to any other type of effort, because it would have for instance, taken that which the lay people of this hypothetical scenario have in common with the modern man and destroyed it for them i.e. everyone has to do some job to earn a living, everyone is exposed to certain things like the media etc, such a hypothetical society would have destroyed these things that have come to be regarded as common and it would have a greater sense of ‘realness’ and ‘radicalism’ as compared to writing a blog or a book. A life without the mind-numbing ‘education’ the westerners so fervently enforce globally, a life without the chaotic distractions of the moderns. Men and women, under the guidance of the said pneumatic(s) would once more attune themselves with Being through their daily actions even vocational, the proper reconstitution of the Sciences and Arts, serving as supports (and here i must say that contemplation doesn’t go hand in hand with speculation, speculation is merely a starting point if contemplation is to be treated with the rigor it deserves) for the realization of orders of a higher reality via contemplation, due to the harmonic correspondence that exists throughout Reality; these would be consequences of principles theoretically taught on the hand of the students (the speculative aspect, which would act as the starting point for contemplation in action, since we are not speaking of ‘natural contemplatives’ who do not rigorously require such supports but of men who in spite of their ‘spiritual potentialities’ still have to take the long route as compared to the direct route, the ‘shortcut’ of raja yoga), and applications of the same principles effectively realized on the part of the Masters. The orientation of such a people would be Godly, in that no aspect of their lives would be ‘left untouched’ by the Revealed Doctrine upon which rests the enterprise that ultimately, whether in this world or any other, leads them to the Truth. This action to me would be truly ‘radical’ because the Words, instead of being ‘dead letters’ would have been vivified and honored (i should say that the people would have been vivified and honored in that what truly belongs to them, their Humanity and their Godhood would have been rightly given them by the ‘active’ nature of these Words and they would hence have been freed from the madness currently directed at them). At any rate, I understand that this is a blog and ask for forgiveness if i may have strung a few wrong cords, but wouldn’t you agree that such an action would be truly ‘radical’ as compared to well, writing-(sure one may say that this is done personally; regardless, one is not completely separate from the modern world)? Doing that wouldn’t mean that this writing would cease, on the contrary, it would greatly increase its effects. Concerning the second aspect of the quoted statement, you can see that i am explicit in referring to such an action (one charged with the power to change) being carried out from a Spiritual vantage point, and by further explaining my intentions pertaining to the first part of the quoted statement (in that the solution involves pneumatic(s) and hence actionless activity from the Spiritual world) i only bring this out all the more. You say that upon achieving personal realization according to their respective aptitudes, these men and women may not care much for mankind as a whole. As i said, i preceded statements relating to action that would foster significant change with the word ‘if’- ‘if it is the Will of God for them’ etc. Note that i do not say- ‘if it is their will having achieved this’ because at the juncture of Spiritual Realization i was referring to, for them, there would be no sense of ‘i’ or ego, having undergone extinction or crucifixion, they would have undergone the third birth or the second death, where the notion of ‘subject’ and ‘object’ would be eliminated via gnosis, which would result in a sudden realization of the ‘now’ and a universal state of consciousness- the ‘satchidananda’ experienced by buddhi or Intellect in its proper meaning, such that only the Will of Being, or the Universal Plan of the Great Architect, would be experienced; having found the terrestrial paradise at the summit of mount purgatory, the next thing to realize would be heaven itself; whatever destiny their earthly form has would not interest them at all- [but what if this destiny (‘prarabdha’) was to foster this very change that supporters of ‘traditionalism’ (the change being a return to the Traditional Life) hope for? Even if it does not interest them, in relation to this brief discussion, the point i am trying to make is that only action that is consciously (for really, there is only one Will) one with the Will of God counts] -though this form should persist as one of the indefinite forms that they are within that eternal moment they have now realized. Having learned the language of Mount Olympus, the language of the Birds, the language of the Devas, indeed the affairs of this earth in distinctive mode would have lost appeal to them.
Yes you are correct in saying that Guenon’s books were not tailored for the modern man. I don’t really know what to make of your ‘differentiated men’ to be honest, i’m not aware of Evola’s works and the people that i respect due to their Spiritual State have told me to disregard them, apparently, Evola become overly interested in magic. I am just paraphrasing what i was told and mean no disrespect, apart from one article written by him, i never knew who he was in terms of his standing, i am currently ‘neutral’ in regards to him. At any rate, the modern man is characterized by a modern mindset, and this modern mindset has plagued even these ‘differentiated men’; an awakening of the modern man involves them in this aspect as modern men insofar as they still rear their modernity-certainly they are not Traditional in their modern state, even if they are ‘differentiated’.
On the aspect of possible deception of the potential elite, i meant what the quoted bible verse says, pardon my placing of words. I meant to emphasize the magnitude of the deception, not to ‘downplay’ the power of the potential elite (though what use is this power in its potential state?-raw iron is indeed the building block of a powerful sword, but in battle, ten thousand men armed with unrefined raw iron are all decapitated by one man using a sword trained with ten thousand times).
Now to the aspect of the counter initiation and their activities. Confucius said that symbols rule the world, not men nor laws. Now while he was referring to transposition from one plane to another, and the dominance possessed by the vertical with respect to the horizontal, this statement is strikingly true today in that, by performing even a superficial look at the various sigils and logos that characterize the modern world in its socio-economic and political arenas, one notices a staggering amount of ‘magical symbols’ depicted in an ‘inverted sense’ and with malefic aims. Remember, the counter-initiates are traditional, though in an inverse manner which makes them satanic; therefore, the regard that they have for symbols is to the modern man, or the uninformed, ‘large’.
Forgive this long comment, but i feel that i should say something about the use of these symbols, their recurrence in pop-culture- the stupid movies, ‘songs’ and ‘books’ vomited by the grotesque ‘theater-men’ of today, their use in the corporate world, in buildings etc. Saying things like, ‘we are uninformed of the workings of the evil men because we have never met them’ for one shows ignorance regarding their modus operandi; this is rather ironic because the ones saying these things understand deeply the meaning of symbols, their nature as ‘bridges’ between the seen and the unseen and their use and the existence of a group who by ‘misusing’ these symbols cause unspeakable evil in the world today. Slowly:
1.) The counter-initiates own nearly all the governments in the world today.
2.) The counter-initiates control the mass media intensively (HBO included).
3.) The counter-initiates control more or less the various degenerated religious organizations (the Papacy included -don’t get mad at me here, i’ll try to offer some proof and you can judge for yourself) and of course the mind-numbingly incorrect ‘education’ systems in the world.
4.) The counter-initiates control the major corporations in the world, in fact, a little research shows that most food companies are subsidiaries of one major company, e.g. Monsanto Corporation produces a shocking 91% of all North American food….
5.) And most importantly, the counter-initiates are very powerful psychically (e.g. the massive ‘alien’ citings, which are artifacts built by earth elementals, proficient in metallurgy (flying metal discs/saucers inhabited by ‘little grey men’) ).
Before i even try to give numerous examples that show a specific agenda being pushed by these men and women, any smart person, ‘piecing’ these five points together would have a rough picture of what the world really is, behind all the propaganda being pushed today.
I’m sure you can think of some examples, some i must say are quite bold and honest, such as the murals depicted in the Denver International Airport. I may respond on this if you ask me to, but only for the purposes of shedding some light on these matters. (That should be obvious to anyone that reveres symbols).
Lastly, on the aspect of fighting from a psychic vantage point. Well, this is only even possible from within a Spiritual Order, whose ‘Spiritual Presence’ is capable of protecting the ‘warrior’ from satanic attacks. You should note that most Christian mystics are always afraid of ‘being hurt by the devil’ due to their unguided realization of psychic states. The devil can snatch your soul, but not your spirit.
My main theme was ignorance on the extent of the actions of the true enemy and complacency on the part of those who may have the power to do anything, should it be the Will of God.
Or, rather, since we do not actually want to ignore anything (i-gno-re is the oppsite of gno-sis):{Who knows where the wicked wind blows
Que sera sera I’ll just leave it alone} ;
i.e. {You have a right to perform your prescribed duty, but you are not entitled to the fruits of action. Never consider yourself the cause of the results of your activities, and never be attached to not doing your duty.}—http://vedabase.net/bg/2/47/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBlAm-f-jHY
Regards,
Riders on the Storm(bull)
Ash and August,
The amount of time I’ve spent thinking on my type is negligible, practically nil, so there is no cause for concern on that front. Besides, if my caste will manifest regardless of what I do, then there can be little danger of stunting myself.
I may be relatively clever, but I am not truly intellectual. I may be athletic and occasionally choleric, but I am not truly a warrior. My passion is directed to my craft. I am a Vaisya.
On the general plane, do you think involvement in esoterism is to be avoided by one of the Vaisya type, as posing a needless distraction if not an occasion for the vices of curiousity and pride? Or can it bear fruit depending on the individual? And here I am thinking particularly of Hermeticism.
I appreciate your ideas.
{The best way to strengthen something is to complain about it. Complaining about bankers, politicians, Harvard, etc., is signaling their robustness: everyone complains yet they are still there, so there has to be something to their existence.
—
People need to see action, not complaint. Instead you need to move, do something, establish competing circuits to harm their directly (MOOC, classes on nonacademic risk management, or call for some kind of punishment (preferably legal, like sue the Nobel), then people will join you after they start seeing blood.}—N.N. Taleb, 2013
{The energies that have been liberated, or which are in the course of liberation, are not such as can be reconfined within the structures of yesterday’s world. The very fact that attempts at reactions have referred those structures alone, which are void of any superior legitemacy, has made the subversive forces all the more vigorous and agressive.}—J.E., 1961
The best thing is to ignore subversion or, if you have the rare inner character, ride it.
Greetings, Michel, and thank you for this heavy comment. Please consider my response.
“Firstly, the actions are wholly ‘verbal’ (and here i repeat, going by the material herein and the resulting speculations they arouse); discursive.”
The material published here is indeed verbal, which is to say written, because this is a blog. Do you mean to say that written evidence of any acts or direct intercessions is absent?
“It should be noted that while everything here seems to remain wholly speculative, the counter-initiates are actually involved in actions that bring about detrimental results on mankind, results that indirectly spark the many debates entertained on this blog and on other ‘Traditionalist forums’.”
For most it is purely speculative, but for others such speculation is an aid to contemplative work. Few of the latter would see any sense in directly confronting the results of the deviation with actions in the corporeal world, and if their own internal development is proceeding apace, they ultimately have every right to care less about mankind as a whole. The former may choose to become regular Catholics, Muslims, etc., after which point the counter-initiation, and even initiation, need not concern them as anything more than mere curiosities. Such cases constitute partial restorations, and even if nothing more is achieved, this blog has still thus attained some of its stated goals. See gornahoor.net/?p=5613 , for example.
“Guenon only used the Traditions as an illustration to ‘awaken’ the modern man, i doubt his works even count as anything ‘preliminary’ with regards to an Initiatic Order, they are not even Religious, thus they are very basic, and their ‘uniqueness’ only shows the deepened state of confusion that the modern mind is in, they offer no ‘spiritual method’…”
Actually, most of Guenon’s books were not intended for the modern man as such, who would scoff or glaze over before he were three pages into one of them, excepting open-minded scholarly types. They offer no ‘spiritual method’ because they are intended as guidance for certain types of men who have (or wish and are able to) actuated spiritual capacities to greater or lesser extents, even ‘accidentally’, and are therefore not fully prepared for the special challenges modernity presents to the unformed man with an active inward sense. Evola would later refer to them as ‘differentiated men’.
“Gnosis and Wisdom are the answer, and these are ‘interior’ and any ‘exterior’ action can only be ‘vivified’ with ‘Spiritual Power’ directed from the ‘vantage point’ of these two.”
Undoubtedly. Yet, either virtually no currently incorporated man possesses such Gnosis and Wisdom, or else there has been a kind of fracture that is not repaired, for how else do we explain the apparent ineffectiveness of various Eastern traditional representatives to resist the encroachments of counter-initiatory influences in their own lands, though not necessarily their own hearts?
“Christ said that in the end, the deception will be so great that there exists a possibility of this elite falling under its power.”
Matthew 24:24 – “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.” (King James Version).
There is no possibility of the elect falling under the power of the deception, else they would not be the elite. Just in case anyone was worried.
“…can anyone reliably, as an example, tell me of some activities they know that relate not to a puppet, but to a puppet master and what they are doing to stop or mitigate it, if this is their goal? I would have a large amount of respect for such an individual, because, being able to, if it is the Will of God, ‘fight’ the counter-initiation, their level of Realization is truly Spiritual, for one cannot fight the counter-initiates from even a psychic ‘vantage point’, if you’ve been there lately, you can clearly see their enormous power…”
The reason most people discuss puppets is because there is not much to ‘beef up’ a description of puppet masters, unless one has met individuals or groups that are the originators of negative psychic centres in the corporeal world, but it can be hard to know who’s who. Otherwise, one would just be describing how they tracked and overcame nasty thoughts or obscurations that previously affected them, and a few authors here have written such articles, which are not to be dismissed.
Take, for example, the emphasis on concentration in spiritual practice. What is necessary first is a defence and consolidation, which involves a focus on the spiritual ‘kernel’ of the Intellect that must reside in the heart of every man, even if only abstractly at first (hence the initial effort to achieve what is later constant). What one soon realises is that certain influences which he previously identified with his own constitution are actually, expressed in one way, ‘frequencies’ broadcasting degrading tendencies to his mind, which he acted upon more or less blindly, but can now distinguish, track and resist, thanks to the fundamental invulnerability of the Self. Thus he reinforces his spiritual centre, even if he has not fully developed it yet, whilst limiting the influence and spread of counter-initiatory outreach. So, this is the beginning of the fight, and one could argue that it is taking place in and from the psychic, even if remotely directed by the ‘Spiritual Admiral’, on whom the whole effort depends.
Indeed, gentlemen.
{BG 3.4: Not by merely abstaining from work can one achieve freedom from reaction, nor by renunciation alone can one attain perfection.
BG 3.5: Everyone is forced to act helplessly according to the qualities he has acquired from the modes of material nature; therefore no one can refrain from doing something, not even for a moment.
BG 3.6: One who restrains the senses of action but whose mind dwells on sense objects certainly deludes himself and is called a pretender.
BG 3.7: On the other hand, if a sincere person tries to control the active senses by the mind and begins karma-yoga [in Krishna consciousness] without attachment, he is by far superior.
BG 3.8: Perform your prescribed duty, for doing so is better than not working. One cannot even maintain one’s physical body without work.
BG 3.9: Work done as a sacrifice for Vishnu has to be performed, otherwise work causes bondage in this material world. Therefore, O son of Kunti, perform your prescribed duties for His satisfaction, and in that way you will always remain free from bondage.}
Says ?r?mad bhagavad g?t? {The Song of the Lord}
Yes, Jason-Adam, but better to think ‘men of Tradition’, and not be so exclusive. Each must play his part, and your description above tends to favour the ascetic with its emphasis on enlightenment above all else. For other men, no less ‘traditional’, it is a distant, lofty goal; they have much to offer before they Escape, and I would not want to hurry them along!
You’re quite right Graham, it is also an arduous path in this era, requiring much investment, and overshadowed by many risks, not the least of which is the unpredictable trajectory of the formation of one’s sons and daughters in the modern milieu. For a strong man this can still be an adventure. You have my prayers and respect, God and His peace be with you, and the other men here who have undertaken the same. May your houses be a fortress of virtus, and your charity a beacon of Light.
Ash has covered your questions on the Vaisya type quite well in my opinion, and I agree with him (nice blog by the way Ash). Such a one should focus on the successful precipitation and maintenance of traditional religion in his own life and the success of his ventures, and to reflect before attempting anything more than discreet and relaxed efforts to effect restorations beyond his own immediate sphere (casting pearls…), unless and until things align to produce a real opportunity for stronger efforts to bear fruit. His very undertaking of such a life successfully has favourable repercussions that require no extra action. Further guidance proper to his situation will of course come from his respected brothers and elders in the faith, with whom he worships in daily life, and his own studies.
“Just to be exact, I will note that the cure was proposed by Guenon, not ‘Tradition’, and its eventuality is not a foregone conclusion. The Fates might decide that a restoration of the West is not necessary.”
Yes, August, the “restoration of the West” is but one option. Guenon actually proposed, or foresaw, a few possible outcomes as we have mentioned several times: The Prophecies of Rene Guenon. Your proposal is what we have in mind, since the greater spiritual combat is what is necessary. We have encouraged readers to bear sons; I would prefer to hear news of such births to long discussions. We have never advocated a revolution, but rather the opposite of a revolution. We certainly do not write for the average Westerner and prefer that they move on.
By fulfilling the role of the Vaisya as best as possible. Take your principles into account in business and work, marry and raise a family, practice to the fullest extent the householder tradition as it manifests in your faith, and use what public role you may have to defend truth and your community. Alain Danielou’s book “Virtue, Success, Pleasure, Liberation” would probably be a fine work to consult.
I’d note on the “naming your caste” practice though, that I think it’s a bit over-thought. One’s caste is innate. It will manifest in ones life, whatever one does; that being the case, it seems a bit redundant to overthink “what caste am I”, as there seems to much danger in trying to live in strict accordance with one caste one imagines himself to be, and thus unintentionally stunting ones true potential.
I agree with you as well, August, on the most practical approach to a restoration. You’ve described the approach I’ve chosen. However, if I may, the reason it’s an unpopular approach is not that it seems boring (or not only that), but more fundamentally, that it’s arduous. I’m sure there’s no need to go into details.
August, what role should members of the vaisya caste play in restoring Tradition? How can vaisyas participate, beyond the general approach on which we agree? I’m interested in your thoughts.
I believe you are correct, August, in outlining the best course of action a Western man can take today. I believe that Julius Evola was correct in saying that the post-WW2 age was too deep into the final phase of Kali Yuga for any hope of success. We can engage in politics if we want but only for its own sake, not for any hope of victory. Abandon all attachments and follow the way to enlightenment as the Prince Siddhartha and the King of Israel Yeshua Jesus Christ taught us.
I submit this proposal to differentiate the true man of Tradition from the false : ask yourself, what is your purpose in life – is it to reach enlightenment or is it to change the world ? If you want to reach enlightenment you must abandon all attachments to the things of this world which are transitory and falsehoods. The world is hell and we must escape from hell to truly live life. Attachment to politics is another craving we must escape from. Remember that the the ideal state is one that is organised in a manner that is best suited for individuals to achieve enlightenment, in other words the aim of traditionalist politics is to overcome politics with spirituality. I welcome all comments.
This is a very interesting website; it however seems predominantly directed to White Europeans, with the aims, by my conjecture, of rejuvenating, propagating and sustaining by various expositions which would result in reactions on the part of the addressed, a ‘Western Traditional State of Mind’. That probably explains why ‘Christian mysticism’ is referred to with such reverence. A truly noble cause, but unrealistic in terms of its goals, at least by virtue of the elements contained herein (perhaps it has ‘secret operations’ of a more ‘radical’ nature, or perhaps the members really are engaged in spiritual activities rooted in pure Unity that would constitute a true suggestive action which would hopefully lead modern men back to a proper Orientation). Whenever i meet so called ‘Traditionalists’ (forgive the modern influence of systematically labeling everything), I am always shocked by their ignorance concerning ‘worldly affairs’ that relate to the ‘counter-initiatic elite’ as well as their passivity and general state of complacency. But perhaps i mistake disinterest for ignorance. At any rate, i say this because it relates to my initial statement of the highly improbable outcome that this blog is hoping for in relation to the decadent state of the modern West. Firstly, the actions are wholly ‘verbal’ (and here i repeat, going by the material herein and the resulting speculations they arouse); discursive. Secondly, they depict a frame of mind that is scarcely informed on matters relating to the enemy(‘counter-initiation’) and an overwhelmingly large amount of information relating to its puppets (products of Western education who nevertheless have been brazened as ‘intellectuals’). Perhaps a little information regarding the activities of the ‘satanic’ elite would help increase the magnitude of the actions entailed herein. It should be noted that while everything here seems to remain wholly speculative, the counter-initiates are actually involved in actions that bring about detrimental results on mankind, results that indirectly spark the many debates entertained on this blog and on other ‘Traditionalist forums’. Forgive the critique, but i am frustrated by extremely complacent people who think that by discussing a certain topic which by modern standards is ‘bold’, ‘strange’ or even ‘mystical’, they are going to bring about any change, if this change is intended on a ‘collective’ scale. If the bar to be surpassed is the chaotic rumble engendered by the modern world, then there really is nothing that you are doing to change anything, insofar as you wish to influence ‘other people’; this modern deviation that seems to be acting as the ‘bar’ to be surpassed is being constantly engineered and manufactured by the most ‘diabolic’ group in the world today, the counter-initiation, and hence all ‘verbal’ responses in light of this engineering manifested as the state of existence in the West, can only be reactionary and hence utterly useless. It is like being ill, reading a few books that describe (vaguely- Guenon only used the Traditions as an illustration to ‘awaken’ the modern man, i doubt his works even count as anything ‘preliminary’ with regards to an Initiatic Order, they are not even Religious, thus they are very basic, and their ‘uniqueness’ only shows the deepened state of confusion that the modern mind is in, they offer no ‘spiritual method’; if a man hides behind ten thousand lies, connected to each other by numerous threads, the snap of one scissor renders the entire mesh-work desolate, but that does not make the scissor as powerful as an axe; the Truth was simply presented to the modern man in a way that his deviated mind could understand, the ‘Basic Traditional Man’ was well aware of these things that strike so many as ‘novel’) the illness and strangely claiming to have defeated the disease, without recognizing and destroying its source. Gnosis and Wisdom are the answer, and these are ‘interior’ and any ‘exterior’ action can only be ‘vivified’ with ‘Spiritual Power’ directed from the ‘vantage point’ of these two. But speaking of these things with a lingering modern mentality that is characterized by being overly ‘scholarly’ and ‘speculative’ won’t do anything and only places one on a level subject to the very ‘suggestive influences’ that the devil’s saints are constantly propagating. I ask, does anyone here know the state that the counter-initiates have reached in regards to the propagation of the New World Order? Does anyone know that the very ‘scholars’ and ‘philosophers’ are but fragile puppets at the hands of a group of people that understand and are in ‘possession’ of certain aspects of Reality that, in spite of being wholly intermediary (psychic), have devastating effects even on the Western elite insofar as they remain in their passive state? Christ said that in the end, the deception will be so great that there exists a possibility of this elite falling under its power. In his books ‘The Crisis of the Modern World’ and ‘The Reign of Quantity and the Signs of the Times’, Guenon warns against the adoption of complacent attitudes while thinking that mere ‘erudition’ constitutes a true active reform that has effects… does sitting around for hours talking about how philosopher y was wrong in manner x when contrasted with philosopher z produce any important effects? The friends of Satan know the utter stupidity of letting such activities engulf one’s entire enterprise, especially if this enterprise is directed towards stopping them. Anyways, i know I’ve angered some people, but i am right. In finishing, can anyone reliably, as an example, tell me of some activities they know that relate not to a puppet, but to a puppet master and what they are doing to stop or mitigate it, if this is their goal? I would have a large amount of respect for such an individual, because, being able to, if it is the Will of God, ‘fight’ the counter-initiation, their level of Realization is truly Spiritual, for one cannot fight the counter-initiates from even a psychic ‘vantage point’, if you’ve been there lately, you can clearly see their enormous power…it is only from the Unity of the formless that one, if Willed by God, can hope to actually do anything; and that is the truth, at the Center, one is one with the Great Architect, having found the lost Word, one is able to Realize the Universal Plan for beings in Being. I know this comment doesn’t directly adhere to the elements dealt with in the preceding article, but i feel it does adhere to the ‘zeitgeist’ of ‘Traditionalists’.
Start listening, the Words are literally and not literally all around.
Sanguine Sight is sub specie interioritatis. What is called the Veracit Eye.
Regards,
Shock Troopers of The Anja Offensive
Two out of four responses now are complaining that Tradition does not “solve the problem” of living in the world that the New Right proposes to solve, and I address both of them.
What is an “action in the world” but a public action? In the traditional sense of the Romans, Greeks, pre-1789 Europeans, Easterners, and Evola, political action that derives from private interest is not properly speaking public, and attempts to veil one’s private interests as the public interest are disingenuous and a betrayal of the public sphere. Even Hannah Arendt, who was a big booster of democracy, understood that democracy destroyed all the fundamental precursors of the former public sphere. Our actions are no longer public but social, aimed at gaining acceptance in a populist mass society. And those behaviors that society has seized from the realm of custom have had their energies redirected into “social progress”. Reactionary politics, even “think tank” political theory, in the late modern world is like pissing into the wind.
Benoist does not understand this because there is little evidence he understands the social principles of Rome at all, much less the sophia perennis which informed them and is the subject of this blog. His manifesto is On Being a Pagan, which carries all the insightful ancient wisdom of noted philologists like Starhawk and Silver RavenWolf. As a set of first principles Benoist’s neopaganism is a poor substitute for Catholicism.
Benoist wants awareness of “classical democracy’, but he doesn’t even understand what it meant to be a citizen of Athens or Rome, as far as I grasped from The Problem of Democracy and his interviews. The social principles of an age when citizenship was a privilege granted to a small group of freeborn families are not a model for a public sphere that has been uprooted and replaced with the whims of mass society.
We are long past the days when mainstream political thought might blow in the reactionary direction. World War II is done and gone, and we are all stupider than our forefathers who died in that war. If and when a reactionary wind does start to blow, it will not be a sweet or calm wind. The preparation needed to guide future generations is spiritual, because populist politics cannot be used to scare mass society straight.
Correct. It almost appears as grim commentary, time-wasting, petty squabbling, ego-mending, topical, hackneyed circular reasoning. Yet I’m here. Then again this is a blog on the internet that expresses opinion and fit for those purposes. If we were in saner times on mount Olympus singing with the vultures and divining with the One this would be another matter, perhaps even ecumenical.
For his troubled era, Christ came to heal the world, but there are now a million claiming to be Christ and no one is listening.
On the bigger picture this is the most realistic commentary yet shown and neatly summarises the entire post-WW2 disarray. There are and have been some stunning solutions from rightist personalities but spiritual elites are few and the manpower needed to implement the actions are even scarcer beyond a prayer for some extreme miracle event (“convergence of catastrophes”). Let the light bearers carry on but the Fates will have their way in any case.
Would the archaic Rómen (of Numen) have spent their days discussing (sub)cultural (sub)politics? Would the Nazarean or even His apóstolo?
Is this, dear reader, your imitation of the Christ?
The “New-right” is not anti-traditional nor opposed to tradition per se but it will in the end be over-rided by tradition – if even this is possible at all. In fact most of what Cologero has asserted about the movement does not stand true to the reality at all and there is little point trying to rectify face from the polemic on Venners death that was based on various sweeping generalities.
However, there is a difference between each and that difference is standing to an over-riding transcendent tradition (i,e, Tradition) and the “New-Right” standing to principles of ideology and culturally acting in the world. Yes it is concerned with the ethnos and its spirit which by all facts and evidences of modern/post-modern times, is under threat.
To get a real grasp of the real “Nouvelle Droite” is to read the De Benoists manifesto on GRECE and his interviews. “New culture, New right”, is the north American interpretation and given the particularism of de Benoist, he did not except it in totem. He also denies affiliations with anything labeling itself the “new right” and its various spinoffs in the US and in Europe.
“However, the cure proposed by Tradition is quite different from that of the new right. According to the former, the West requires a healing through spiritual regeneration. This will begin with an awakening of a few to the full scope of the problem; they will inaugurate the recovery of tradition which will eventually gather influence.”
Just to be exact, I will note that the cure was proposed by Guenon, not ‘Tradition’, and its eventuality is not a foregone conclusion. The Fates might decide that a restoration of the West is not necessary.
Many of those who really feel an urge to work for a Western restoration would achieve the most significant of their stated goals by embracing Catholicism openly and completely, taking wives and having sons of their own race/nationality, preserving and extending whatever European customs they have inherited, and moving to family-friendly suburbs with similar neighbours. Beyond this they could continue their learning, and try to exert an influence on politics, in order to limit the disintegrative potential of mass immigration, multiculturalism etc., purely as a practical matter, and not as some grandiose epic of climactic universal warfare. If they have allowed faith to enter their hearts, even the worst possible political outcome would not cause them too much distress.
But this might be too boring a proposal for many of them, so they allow their minds to wander high and low, expecting great results, but only producing some interesting books and articles, and maybe a few ‘movements’ here and there, perhaps of value to some, though nothing major. The present era isn’t really suited to host a Sacred Imperium.
To paraphrase Churchill, ‘the best argument against the possibility of grand restorations of Tradition is a five minute conversation with the average Westerner’.
For reference.
Cologero’s original quote:
“The New Right promotes everything opposed to Tradition: atheism, neo-paganism, zoological racism, ethnic anti-Semitism, and even, ironically (considering M. Venner’s position), homosexuality.”
John Morgan’s quote:
“This overlooks the fact that Venner was only involved with the “New Right” during its first decade of existence. By the 1980s he was no longer involved with Benoist’s GRECE. So Venner was not, strictly speaking, a “New Right” author. Beyond that issue, however, while I would agree that the New Right is not a traditionalist movement in the sense of Evola or Guenon, one cannot accurately claim that it has ever stood for “atheism” (where have Benoist or any of the others advocated for that? Quite the opposite), “zoological racism” (the New Right has always stood against racism), or “homosexuality” (again, I have never come across a single place where the New Right has defended it). Even “neo-paganism” is debatable, since the New Right has never argued that Westerners should take up the worship of Odin or Jupiter again, as Benoist makes clear in his book on paganism, where he calls for a more “philosophical paganism.”
In your article here, Cologero, you have A) tried to reinforce your claim that the New Right stands for neo-paganism, which Morgan claims is “debatable,” and B) decided that “communitarian or volkisch currents” and being in favor of “science” are tantamount to zoological racism. This speaks for itself. You have also not bothered to press your original claim that the New Right is in favor of atheism, homosexuality, and/or ethnic anti-Semitism, so I will take your taciturnity on those issues as an admission that you were wrong.
Maybe you are equating the French “New Right” with the “North American New Right,” which is what Counter-Currents.com claims to represent. If so, then that is all fine and perfectly acceptable, since C-C does seem to promote zoological racism, anti-semitism, and homosexuality, but you are revealing your own ignorance when you fail to make that very necessary distinction.
First, I must thank you for taking the time to write this article. More and more, there seems to be an influx of people using the world Traditionalist to their own ends. Among others is a certain podcast I see recently launched. Spouting lines from Evola, abhoring the decline of the white race, bashing Pussy Riot, throwing your support behind any State that happens to have problems with Israel and America, and listening to martial, neoclassical, and folk metal do not constitute Tradition (doesn’t discount them either, I personally love folk metal). The core of the Traditionalist school is outlined well here; the core of Tradition itself, the meaning and reality reflected by that word, is a way of living and an experiential knowledge called Gnosis. Without that fundamental aspect, the rest doesn’t matter in the slightest. Thank you also for the comments on nobility. The close relationship between Emperor Frederick II Hohenstauffen and his Muslim counterparts is something which knee-jerk anti-Islam groups like the EDL, or frankly even many within the Identitaire/Identiaere movement, cannot begin to understand in their current ideological framework.
On the complex nature of the movement which grew from the new right, a few words should be said. The nouvelle droite, of course, was neopagan in nature. However, from that has grown, apart from the body of intellectual writings of de Benoist, Venner, and others, a legion of offspring: the Identity movement in France and Germany, others like Casa Pound in other European countries, the German equivalent Neue Rechte, which publishes through outlets like Junge Freiheit and upholds a more Christian core, and so on. Where the New Right conflicts with Tradition, it is of course wrong. But the New Right is by its own admission an intellectual movement, and therefore, it can be changed and improved as required. De Benoist himself was influenced by Maurras in his youth; perhaps this long line of intellectual forefathers can be remembered today. Indeed, with blogs like this and others, it’s already happening.
It’s true that the New Right concerns itself with bio-cultural issues. But while the spiritual reality may be highest in the chain of being, without culture the chain would be broken. So if those of us influenced by their ideas remember first principles and make sure that the “cultural” critiques we develop are informed by them, the currently tense relationship might begin to flower.